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True Existence in Svatantrika, Prasangika; How Things Exist

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By Kyabje Lama Zopa Rinpoche Italian Club, Brisbane, Australia (Archive #1564)

The following are teachings given by Lama Zopa Rinpoche in Brisbane, Australia in June 2006.

Although the teaching event was titled Eight Verses of Mind Training, Rinpoche did not give commentary on that text. Instead he taught on various lam-rim topics such as stories of Asanga, samsara, guru devotion and emptiness. True Existence in Svatantrika, Prasangika; How Things Exist

[tape change]

[pause] So, truly existent I, so as I started with the ten jung, so we explain from that side.

So now, I, the self, how it exists is, ten, by depending on the aggregates, by depending to the aggregates, jung, then, it exists, it arises, ten jung.

So, the ten, the I depending on the aggregates that stops the eternalism, the I existing without depending on the aggregates, I existing.

So that means, so I existing without depending on the aggregates, so that means existing from its own side.

It means I exist from, that means I is independent, opposite, so not depending on the aggregates, that means independent, okay, inherently existent, ?den pa tru pa in Tibetan, truly existent.

So, the truly existent, ?den pa tru pa, has a different meaning.

It’s very, when we study need to know the differences, different meaning, the Madhyamika school, the Svatantrika, rang gyurpa, Svatantrika school, their meaning of truly existent and truly existent in the Prasangika school, it has different meaning.

So if you don’t understand it has different meaning then you get completely confused, both says there’s no true existence, so then you’ll be completely confused if one doesn’t understand that there’s different meaning, it has a different meaning.

What it means truly existent in the Svatantrika school and what it means truly existent in the Prasangika school.

So the Svatantrika school, rang gyurpa, then appearing to the undefective senses and then undefective senses then put the label, undefective senses then labeled this and that.

So, the rang gyurpa, the Svatantrika school, their definition of true existence is things completely existing from its own side.

Something particular completely existing from its own side without depending on appearing to the undefective senses and the undefective senses labeling.

So there is I on the aggregates that’s foundable, there’s I on the aggregates, on the base, the aggregates, foundable, so it exists from its own side.

It exists by nature, it exists from its own side, but it does not exist truly, because labeled by the mind, it has to be labeled by the mind, the ?extra is that. So it does not exist truly.

But in the teng gyurwa, Prasangika school, their meaning of truly existent is what rang gyurpa, Madhyamika school the first one, the rang gyurpa, Svatantrika school,

believe that the I can be found on the aggregates, the table can be found on the base of the table, foundable,

and it’s not just merely labeled by mind, it cannot, things cannot exist being merely labeled by mind, because things exist,

how they exist is labeled by mind, also from their own side, there’s something from its own side, existing, there’s something existing from its own side.

So, labeled by mind but there’s something existing from the side of the I or from the side of the table or whatever, phenomena, there’s something existing from its own side.

So, but do not exist truly, which definition which I mentioned before. So therefore now, the way the Svatantrika school believe, labeled by mind but it’s not merely labeled by mind because there’s something existing from its own side.

So because of that, then, this one, which they think is correct view, but actually this is truly existent, belief of, things are truly existent according to the Prasangika school.

So what the rang gyurpa, Svatantrika school believe, that is a wrong concept holding things as truly existent. That’s according to teng gyurwa, the Prasangika school, then that’s totally wrong.

Any phenomena that it has something not merely labeled by mind, because it has something from its own side, there’s something from it’s own side existing, so that is the definition of truly existent according to the Prasangika school.

So in the Prasangika school, true existence, existing from its own side, existing by nature, all these have the same meaning.

Whereas the rang gyurpa, Svatantrika school, then existing from its own side, existing by nature, that they think is correct view, that’s reality they think.

Then true existence is without appearing to the undefective senses labeling, then appearing and then believing so that’s the particular, ?totally existing from its own side. Then that’s the definition of truly existent.

So if we understand, to understand, to realize emptiness, to realize the truth of any phenomenon,

truth of the I,
truth of the aggregates,
truth of mind,
the ultimate reality,
truth meaning ultimate reality of any phenomenon,

so first need to, first, example the I, first need to recognize the, so in order the cut the root of samsara, the ignorance, there’s only one, there’s only one type, there’s only one, there’s not many roots of samsara. There’s not many different types of ignorance, root of samsara.

Root of samsara is the ignorance which is the, ignorance is a very specific, it’s just one particular ignorance, just one particular ignorance, not many different types of ignorance.

So, [long pause] what I was saying before is, to be able to see the I, realize that, to discover, to realize it is empty, [pause] one needs to recognize the false I, I which is false, which is object, which is believed by the ignorance that it’s true,

I which is false, self which is false, believed by the ignorance it is true.

So what the rang gyurpa, Svatantrika school believe, even though accept labeled by mind but then there should be something from its own side. How can be, how can it exist, merely labeled?

If it’s merely labeled then it becomes nonexistent, nihilism, nonexistent.

So there has to be something from its own side, so there’s something existing from its own side, so that, there’s something left over, that not just satisfied merely,

existing in mere name, merely imputed by mind, not satisfied by that, but there’s something extra, there’s something more than that.

So however, appeared and believed something slightly more than what is merely imputed by mind, so that is the gak-cha, that is the Prasangika school, the extremely subtle object to be refuted.

That there should be something from its own side, so that something discover is empty of, it’s not self-sufficient, [[[Tibetan]]] empty of self-sufficiency, all that, it is non truly existent, their point of view, their own meaning of truly existent, this is empty.

So it’s empty of existing alone, the Vaibhashika school has ?che ta me wa, which has eighteen schools, ?ne ma pu bi de pa, which, yeah, the philosophy,

their view of the I, [pause] in the Hindus believed permanent, atman, so which is believed permanent. So here in the Buddhist, the Vaibhashika school, the first, ?

che ta me wa, the first school of Buddhist philosopher, eighteen schools, then the particular one, ?ne ma pu bi de pa, that is impermanent and Hindus believe permanent, whereas here, impermanent, existing, empty of existing with its own freedom, because it’s dependent on cause and conditions.

Then, dependent on parts so it is empty of existing alone. So this is all there, ?accept. So all those other things are there but, what the lower schools believe.

But now here so not, could not unify the, unable to accept merely labeled by mind, the I exists in mere name, merely labeled by mind. If one accept that, becomes nihilism, that it doesn’t exist.

So, unable to unify, so like this, so then, because it should have something existing from its own side.

There should be something from its own side. How can it exist without something existing from its own side? So then here you fall in eternalism.

If you try to accept merely labeled by mind you fall in nihilism; then here existing from, because believing existing, that there should be something from its own side, so then you fall in eternalism.

So that’s what blocks to see the Middle Way view, and devoid of nihilism and eternalism,

the middle view unable to see. So things, the I and the phenomena, I, aggregates, the phenomena, form, sound, smell, taste, tangible object, all the rest of the phenomena, so seeing the Middle Way, so it doesn’t happen.

So either nihilism or either eternalism, so fall. So by, main thing is, because believing that things cannot exist without something existing from its own side, then that blocks.

If you realize that one is empty, there, that there should be something from its own side, there’s something extra left,

not just, not being satisfied merely labeled by mind but there should be something from its own side, something more than what is merely labeled by mind.

So then if one realize that one, if one realize that, something left over, that totally nonexistent, totally nonexistent there, totally nonexistent just there,

from where it is appearing, it’s totally nonexistent right there, then here you’re seeing the Middle Way view.

So by seeing the, devoid of eternalism, existing from its own side, so there should be something, not just merely labeled by mind, there should be something slight beyond from that,

merely labeled by mind, then seeing that is totally empty there, then, totally nonexistent, [pause] then as a result you discover, that is discovering the absolute truth of the I.

Now then as a result then you discover the conventional truth of the I, that the I exists, as a result you discover I exists, how? In mere name, merely imputed by the mind.

In mere name, merely imputed by mind.

So, you come to realize, come to discover as a result how the I exists.

You come to realize this as a, what it is and how it exists, mere name, merely imputed by mind, what it is, while it’s empty of existing from its own side, while it doesn’t have nature, the nature existing from its own side…. [pause]

So yesterday I was discussing with Geshe Tashi, so Geshe-la was saying that they don’t exist by nature, ?rang zhin zhing ma tupa, they don’t exist by nature but they have nature.

So emphasizing by nature, they don’t exist by nature, but they have nature. So it’s, Geshe-la was trying to help me to, the differences.

But the nature, when we meditate, when we visualize as deity, yourself as deity, ?nang la rang zhin me pa, oneself appearing, yourself the deity or your body’s the deity’s holy body, ?nang la rang zhin me pa, nang ma is appearing, rang zhin me pa, no nature.

Here it doesn’t say by nature but it says no nature. So here the meaning is existing from its own side, the words is same, no nature, but here it means, doesn’t have truly existent nature. It doesn’t have truly existent nature.

It’s like no nose, no form, no smell, no taste, no tangible object, it’s the same.

It means there’s no truly existent form, sound, smell, taste, tangible object, no I or aggregates, truly existent, existing by, also I, aggregates, form, sound, smell, all these, existing by nature, do no exist, so same.

So here the view, according to the point of view of ignorance, the true existence is reality, truly existent I, truly existent this body.

According to the point of view of ignorance, this is reality.

According to the wisdom realizing emptiness, that’s not reality; that’s opposite to reality.

So therefore, appearance is opposite to the reality, what is deity’s holy body, what deity is, this is emptiness, or deity’s holy body is empty.

What the deity is is empty. So that’s the real nature, so but appear truly existent body, truly existent deity.

So, ?nang ne mai drin pa, so then nang means appearance, truly existent, so not harmonized, opposite to the reality, the nature of the deity’s holy body, the deity, empty.

Their nature is, nature of the deity and the deity’s holy body, nature is emptiness, their nature is emptiness.

So appearance opposite to the ?ne sul, the reality. So that is the definition of ?dzun pa, false, that’s false, so this, all the appearance is false, ?dzun pa.

So, according to the wisdom, the reality of I, the reality of the deity, reality of the deity’s holy body is emptiness.

Their nature, their reality is emptiness, because the wisdom see. So that’s correct one.

So where it says ?nang la rang zhin me pa, appearing but no nature so that means nature according to the interpretation, view, projection what’s believed by ignorance, according to the point of view of the ignorance,

that is the truly existent or the deity and deity’s holy body existing by nature, existing from its own side, so that one. So it all depends on the context.

So the I, so here after realizing that is empty, seeing that is total, that doesn’t have true existent even an atom, I doesn’t have true existence even an atom, totally empty, empty of that.

Not even an atom existing from its own side, even that, even tiny like that existing from its own side, doesn’t have at all, the I or this table, this house, same, anything ?what ?exists,

the huge mountains, sky, tree, road, car, doesn’t have one single atom of true existence, even that existing by nature, from its own side, doesn’t have. So, doesn’t have, so everything’s, so you can see here now in reality all these are totally empty.

The sky is totally empty. Not only the space, the sky or space, not only empty of substantial phenomena, but it’s empty, not empty of sky, not empty of space itself, that’s nonexistent, so not empty of substantial phenomena but while the sky, while the space is existing it’s empty, empty of the real space, meaning existing from its own side,

so it doesn’t have even slightest of an atom of existing from its own side, space, sky, car, house, even the hall here, doesn’t have, including your own body, mind, doesn’t have, so totally empty, I, ?means the I. So the whole phenomena, hell is empty like that, enlightenment is like that, suffering is empty like that, happiness is empty like that, virtue is empty, nonvirtue is empty like that.

So that in the department store, in the supermarket, we see there’s, supermarket there’s so many billions of different food, supermarket, the food, so many, even the cheese there’s sixty, seventy different cheeses, anyway, in the United States that, I’m not sure whether everywhere the same or not, anyway.

Anyway, even the cheese, the rotten cheese , ?funky cheese, ?funky cheese.

Anyway, so the supermarket so many, so everything you see, everything to our hallucinated mind, everything appears, all these millions and billions of food, all the different food, all the different cheese, all the different fruits,

all the different vegetables, all those different meat, so all these, different potatoes , so anyway, so everything there is so real, so real, so real, so you the real I pay the real money to the real shopkeeper,

to the real ?table, who receives the, who give the money cash, who gives the number, how much you have spend, how much you have bought or spent, it’s the same , anyway, so a real shopkeeper and real goods and all this.

So when you go in the section of the clothing in department store, now going in department store, so anyway, all these various, all these millions of different underwear,

the different pants or the jacket or the coats or the , anyway, inside wear, outside wear, then all the millions of things to wear for the feet, all the millions of things to wear on the hat, not on the hat, on the head!

To wear, not on the hat, to wear on the head, so many. So anyway, so again here, when, so everything so real, existing from its own side, so real, so which are all hallucination.

Then you go to make-up shops, in the make-up shops, then all these bottles, all these make-up, all these different colors, all these bottles, so those millions of bottles, so anyway, again everything appears real, real one, all those.

So anyway, so there, whichever section you go everything looks so real.

So you wear that real dress, on the parties, the real dress in the real parties, then you buy this, you eat the real, you bought this real food from supermarket then you cooked the real food and then eat, then do the real eating, so like that.

Then go to real toilet. Real poo-poo! I didn’t know this “poo-poo” before. I’ve been using “ka-ka.”

But it seems many people don’t understand when I say “ka-ka.”

So just recently in Washington when I was in the International Office, went there to, so gave some teaching there, so then somebody told me “poo-poo.”

So that sounds more realistic. So anyway, so real poo-poo, so like that.

So in reality there’s no slightest of even atom of that, no phenomena, there is food, there’s all these different vegetables, cheese, all these meat and all these different things, food,

there in the supermarket, it exists but do not have slightest in reality even an atom of existing from its own side.

Even so tiny like that existing from its own side doesn’t, so all those phenomena do not have even an atom of existing from its own side, they do not have.

So this is, so through meditation, through analysis, yourself the spiritual scientist, meditator, then through analysis this is what you discover, you realize, totally empty, but not nonexistent.

But not nonexistent, it exists, totally empty, all that.

What appeared, the way it appeared real and believed, totally nonexistent, empty.

And all the, in the department store all those billions of things, different sections, however, all the same, do not have one, even an atom of true existence, so, totally empty.

Whereas the way it’s appeared to our hallucinated mind and believed it’s real, it’s true, as it is true, there’s no such thing even an atom of that. So through meditation we discover all those are empty, those things. So that’s the reality.

So, [pause] there is no, since the I, the mind which sees the aggregates, then that mind merely imputed I, just simply just made up the name, I, so that’s it.

There’s I because there’s aggregates, a valid base, aggregates, exist.

So what is the I that’s all, nothing more than that, what is merely imputed by mind.

So now here you can see the I is totally empty, totally empty, empty of what? Empty of the real I that usually appears to our hallucinated mind, real in the sense existing from its own side. Real in the sense existing from its own side.

Source

http://www.lamayeshe.com/article/chapter/true-existence-svatantrika-prasangika-how-things-exist